RMG General Assembly on CVIM

(Voting has closed.  CVIM is staying.  For the record I voted stays.  I will have a follow up post regarding this, but let’s say I think the point I was trying to make with this exercise has been proven.  Especially when someone who is the leading proponent of banning people from a free and open exchange of ideas calls it censorship when s/he is threatened with the ban.  I also knew that RMG would vote to keep an open dialog. – promoted by Rob “EaBo Clipper” Eno)

OK, many of you have emailed me that Concerned Voter In Mass (CVIM) doesn’t add value to this website.  I’ve pushed back saying that I’m all for open dialog, hence Festus Skeffington being here. I think Festus Skeffington actually adds value to the site.  He has reasoned arguments that aren’t just regurgitations of Democratic talking points. CVIM is a talking point machine.  So I’m ready to listen.

In the spirit of the Occupy Movement I hereby call to order a General Assembly of Red Mass Group for the purposes of discussing the further Role of ConcernedVoterInMass on Red Mass Group.  

Please vote yea or nea in the poll below.  Voting will close mid day tomorrow.  

Feel free to discuss.    

[poll id=”

424

“]

About Rob "EaBo Clipper" Eno

  • …then Rob, you would have to ban yourself.  

    Seriously Rob, what level of legitimacy would BlueMassGroup have if they banned you for the crime of spouting Republican talking points?

  • highlighting any news story or making any point that some on here don’t like is a “talking point” that should be deemed invalid.

    So, hey, your call, RMG.  Vote for open discussion and multiple perspectives or vote for censorship.

  • Has CVIM ever written a post/comment on anything other than the GOP presidential primary candidates?

    Anything on any policy/race here in MA other than the Scott Brown race?  Casino gambling, any other issue, other than as an attack on a GOP politician?

    Festus has, which is why I am glad s/he is here.  But I cannot recall any substantive post by CVIM.

  • geo999

    That is not a vote of admiration – I think CVIM is a garden variety troll.

    But those who feed him the most are the ones who get lured into his inane quibbles in the margins.

    They do far more to embarrass and damage RMG than he does, because ostensibly they are from our own camp.

    They can choose not to feed him.

    CVIM is easy to ignore, most of the time, because he’s not especially creative or well read.

    The temptation to engage him is usually more visceral than intellectual. I know, I do it myself from time to time.

    So let the troll stay – we tolerate others.

    However, please consider summary deletion of especially offense or moronic posts and exchanges.

    Maybe that would clean things up a bit.

  • I would fight for his right to say it. You don’t win by supressing speech; you win by having better ideas and defending those ideas.  

    That another site chooses to censor those with whom the editors disagree speaks poorly of their confidence in their own positions. Please don’t make the same mistake.

  • And he generates a lot of comments.  Think of all the page views!

    $$$$

    I rest my case.

  • I’m curious if the pro-censorship voters will man up and identify themselves.

    I’m guessing that three of the votes are David Whelan, Vote3rdpartynow, and ElectricStrawberry.  Any desire to confirm, the four of you who voted Yea for censorship?

  • MerrimackMan

    There are plenty of outlets for the Democratic talking points elsewhere. I don’t need to see them here too.

    But by the current poll result, looks like he will be staying…

  • Did you ever get a satisfactory answer from Rob on the FAQ issue that bothered you so much?

  • geo999

    …I’ll go visit a cavern.

    It’s more interesting when there are varying points of veiw.

    It would certainly be nice if some coherent, well informed liberals chose to debate here, but alas, such is rarely the case.

  • edfactor

    First off, I find such a vote amusing. I am thrilled to see that Rob is finally realizing that there should be some standards of behavior around here.

    I don’t think it’s a question of “not adding value.” Many people lurk here and post nothing. (They add no value). Some post things that are mindlessly partisan, but from the right, and add no value. Some people are immature and annoy me. (Mr. Voter himself has actually been the target of bad behavior as well.)

    I think the issue is that Mr. Voter is an anonymous poster who is, almost all the time, just trying to irritate the regular visitors on this site. What purpose does this serve? Even when he is rightly calling out Republicans for bad or suspicious things they do, he takes the worst possible view of the motives of the people he writes about. (The recent Hedlund story is a good example.) He teases people about unflattering trends and people in the party, goading them into saying dumb things, which often works.

    He doesn’t ever write articles or comments holding up the good things that Republicans do when they do them. He uses inflammatory and snarky words when they are not needed. It is rare he concedes a point on the other side.

    I wish the site had features that let me hide people who I don’t want to see (it would be several). That would be my preferred way of dealing with this. I also think people should just ignore posts they don’t like.

    But since the software doesn’t allow users to deal with this kind of thing on their own, and since some people just keep egging him on, it would be better to just shut down his account.  

    I am sure he can just create another account and keep irritating people if he wants. So I guess a ban or even just a significant number of votes for expulsion will just remind him that he probably should re-examine his role in this community of people. If he wants to be the “loyal opposition” here that improves the community, fine. He will have to change his behavior to accomplish that. Does he have that in him? Maybe. I have seen a few rare flashes of it in his posts.

    – Ed Lyons

  • Karl Marx

    for a two-party state. He’s a blatant apologist for the Democrats but RMG should operate in the spirit of open-ness and spirited debate. Most of what CVIM is dogmatic and simply a page out of the Democratic playbook. If we can’t tolerate CVIM then we aren’t prepared to change public opinion.

  •    But always a frequent reader.

      Yes, the stuff is wearing thin.

      Bye bye!

  • MerrimackMan

    Maybe last chance before you have to leave…

    Are you the former user “Yellow Cake?” by any chance?

    You and Yellow Cake? have a very similar writing style.  

  • I’m not a big fan of Survivor ..but I feel like this is “Political Survivor” and poor CVIM has the short straw this week.

    So many questions …

    Does he get voted off the island?

    How many will publicly stand and support him?  

    And why hasn’t my buddy “Republican Ram Rod Radio” offered his always interested opinion on the situation??

    Stay tuned ….

  • Vote3rdpartynow

    I am not generally for removing someone from an opinion oriented political website, but this is different.  CVIM isn’t just throwing out his/her opinion – it is rabble rousing.  How many times have I been personally attacked by CVIM on this site?  I am not talking about responding harshly to one of my comments, but rather CVIM posting an entire commentary about me or my religion.  When the posts become about a person on the site and not an issue of politics then the train is off the tracks.  

    This is important – I know I can be very blunt, somewhat offensive and painfully direct in my comments here at RMG.  But many times (most often) it is provoked by CVIM.  I would be a better blogger if CVIM were not here.  Lately, I have avoided making responses to CVIM.

    Most of my posts are well thought out ideas or commentary and I seek feedback or challenges.  Everyone gives me their thoughts – except CVIM who simply makes a stupid accusation or retort.  He’s the turd in the punchbowl here at RMG.  

    I know CVIM does not control BMG, but I have been banned from there for a few years now.  I went there to challenge their ideas and for that I was banned.  I say let’s do the same to the left.  I would personally ban Simple, Festus, CVIM and any other person that adds nothing but baseless blathering to the intellectual political recipe being created here.  

    If he stays I no longer respond to him.  

    OFF THE ISLAND…..

  • It’s a business question. If RMG wants to keep me, CVIM has to go. I am one of the people that contacted Rob. My point is that this site has gotten less user friendly with CVIM.

    CVIM creates all sorts of posts I have no interest in.

    He is sometimes 50% of the comments on posts (and adding in Patrick nd Simple it’s 75%).

    I don’t really care what he thinks. I am here for nuanced Republican views, with maybe a little independent thrown in.

    So now instead of looking at a topic and clicking on it, I have to see who posted it. Once in, I have to scan to see who posting. I have to see where the thread has gone, and whether it’s just turned into a CVIM debate.

    You might say “boo hoo, then go” and I don’t expect sympathy. I have plenty of other opportunites for discourse. I liked it here but now I don’t.

  • gary

    Arguably, if a poster is a garden variety troll, then, it’s best eliminated by the bright light of day.  It’s really not difficult to figure out who CVIM is.

  • BrocktonDave

    too much anymore, but here is my two cents.

    I run a site myself, which is non-political, and I reserve the right to ban anyone I want.  It gets a lot worse there than it does here on it’s worst day.  Rob pays the bills, and it’s his decision.

    Crackpipe doesn’t add anything but foolish circular logic that I don’t read anymore.  The headings say it all.

    Hedlund votes for Happy Hour to line his pockets.

    Brown votes against stimulus, and kills babies and women.

    Romney crossed the street and didn’t bring the chicken with him, showing he supports abusing animals.

    It’s dumb, and proves only to entertain him.

    My opinion doesn’t mean much, but I vote him off.

    Of course, I’ve done this a few times on my own site for trolling and other offenses, and there really isn’t anything you can do about it.  Usually the banned person will open multi’s and have friends attack the site and ruin it more.  But as with regular elections, I can vote the way I want…  and I don’t want to hear from him anymore.

  • CVIM claiming that banning him is akin to censorship and a violation of his first amendment rights is directly comparable to Hank Williams Jr. claiming the same thing when ESPN fired him. I’m sure CVIM wasn’t defending the Monday Night Football crooner (and rightly so) when he was fired for comments that were deemed beyond the pale, and no such defense is afforded to him in this forum. His sanctimonious claim of free speech and simple-minded denunciation of those who offer their opinion on why he should be banned is just goes to prove the point of his detractors.

    The real problem with the CVIM phenomenon on RMG is the amount of content he generates in comparison with the other posters. CVIM’s uptick in the number of posts and comments over the past months has coincided with a reduction in user generated content by other members of the RMG community. Did CVIM’s banter drive them away or did he just fill a naturally occurring void. It’s the old chicken and the egg argument, but the current result is the same in either case. So, people who visit here for discussion of political issues, opinion, etc. are mostly able to find mindless bickering between CVIM and a few other members of the RMG community. It’s exactly the same as the ongoing silliness between John Howard and Electric Strawberry, but it just occurs much more frequently.

    If you feel CVIM is simply annoying you can of course just ignore him. However, there’s not been much else going on here as of late, which is why I suspect the issue is coming to a head. If members spent as much time creating interesting user generated content (like criticaldan and a few others), then it wouldn’t seem like CVIM is posting all the time (and yes, I realize I am criticizing myself here as I am a lapsed poster/commenter). And, instead of being one of the main voices on the site, he would fade into the background.

  • He/She can stay so long as they no longer anonymously.

    I would like to know if they are paid to advocate these views. If they are an intern with the Mass Democratic Party, I think that we should know that.

    I used to work for a political candidate, so I started posting using my real name. People are entitled to know where you are coming from.

    Fair?  

  • Sometimes my posts point out flaws in the character of Republican candidates.

    Those that vote to ban me are saying they’d rather have their cozy echo chamber than have to defend Jeff Perry’s record in law enforcement or Mitt Romney’s flip-flopping and so on.  Instead of actually defending your guy, you’d rather just ban the person pointing out the flaws – an admission that you can’t defend your guys in here, much less at the doors and on the phones.

    Those that vote to ban me don’t have the honesty in them to say “Yeah, Jeff Perry did some sleazy, unethical stuff, but he’s a Republican so I’m voting for him.”  I shout from the rooftops – or at least comment on here – that I want DiMasi, Finneran, and Wilkerson sharing a jail cell for a long, long time; but you don’t have the integrity to call out your guys when it’s warranted.

    By not wanting someone to point out the flaws in the people you support – and to go to the lengths of banning that person for the grand offense, those voting to ban me are saying that they don’t want someone pointing out their own flaws, their own lack of integrity to be able to defend their choices.

    They don’t want that mirror held up to their integrity or lack thereof.

    And it’s pretty shocking how few of the people on here who so rapidly talk about individual rights and free speech are taken aback by Rob “EaBo Clipper” Eno’s willingness to censor and ban someone – particularly someone who has highlighted actual violations of community behavior in the past.  Vote3rdpartynow and ElectricStrawberry have routinely used violent, threatening imagery toward me, without a peep about community standards.  In the comments on this very string, billxi hurls obscenity-laden tirades at users.  No big deal, huh?

    Those that voted to not ban me – good for you, you’ve stood up for free speech, or, at least, common sense.  If you don’t like a user’s writing, skip over their posts.  In the Recent Posts box, there are 20 posts; currently, a whopping 3 are from me.  I’m not drowning out anyone’s speech, just offering another side of the story – and, for that, I’m up for being censored and banned.

    Those that voted to ban me are taking the coward’s way out – quash an unpopular voice rather than defend your own opinion.

    That’s the choice here.

  • MerrimackMan

    Life goes on. I guess I’ll just ignore it from now-on.  

  • And if it wasn’t for some GOTV effort made over at BMG, the closed dialog folks at RMG would have won.  

    Really, without the liberal posters and lurkiers like myself, CVIM, ChrisMath, Amber Paw and Harmony voting…CVIM would have been banned by the mob.  

    So don’t pat the RMG community on the back for their enlightened approach to public discourse…thank the Liberal Elite for saving your site from public embarrassment.  

  • Rob, looks like you might be shooting yourself in the foot if you throw out CVIM.  (S)he has generated more interest in your RW snoozefest than any recent posts.  Perhaps you should vote in your own self interest, like the good Sen. Bob Hedlund.  If you want to enforce purity of thought over making the $, that’s on you.

  • You should build an electric fence around your blog, with a sign posted saying “This will kill you”.  Make sure to run it through the John Kerry elite speak filter first, so these libtards can understand it.  You can finance this with a 9% sales tax on lattes & arugula.  Don’t forget to eat used food, so you can be a good Conservative and avoid paying taxes.

  • V

    …but there seems to be quite a few new handles signed up today.

  • While I am sure CVIM is a Godless heathen, and likely would be condemned to Hell by my religion, as a good Christian I must allow him the right to his speech on this blog.  Also, think about it, if you throw him out you are accepting fact that you cannot counter his arguments with good Conservative logic and facts.  If you think he is truly as pathetic as you say he is, keep him here and let him keep making his species look bad.  So as a Christian and a Conservative I am perfectly willing to let him keep coming here and making himself look like a fool.

  • Team,

    This has to be one of the most interesting comment threads yet.  I’m not sure why, but it is.

    I have to tell you that I have been a member of RMG for several years, and I visit RMG several times a day, but I don’t post very often. I visit because I enjoy the topics that get posted, the analysis by several thoughtful members, as well as the sometimes witty banter between people. RMG is one of my “go-to” websites for information and analysis on all things R-MA.

    I’m not one to deny someone the right to post what they want, assuming they are a member in good standing on this website.  It’s just that this sort of thing seems to crowd out the topics that many of us come here to read and comment on.  It is getting harder to find some thoughtful nuggets because one has to wade through the back and forth bickering (again, not that its a bad thing, I’m just sayin’…).  

    Most of us are on the same team, and we want this site to succeed, because in my opinion, it is a key vehicle to get our message out to more people.  We are focused on growing and nurturing the Republican party in Massachusetts.  We have a unique opportunity to do this over the next few years.  We have 33 house seats now.  Once we have 54, we can sustain a veto, and then the game is instantly changed.  This is within our sights.  I’m looking forward to more posts that talk about the new districts, that identify vulnerable Democrats, and how we can map out a path to victory in those districts. I’d also like to see more posts about developing RTCs in every town and city in MA.  

    Another point I want to make is that we have many elected officials (that we have worked our tails off to get elected) that visit this site and often provide insight into how things work in MA.  I think if we want them to continue to come and participate, we should bring the discourse up a bit.  Not that we have to be all policy and no fun, but we don’t want to risk turning too many people off, and I don’t just mean elected officials.  

    Whew!  This was my longest post to date – sorry for the rant, but I had to get that off my chest.  Thanks again to Rob for keeping the lights on for us to read and comment…

    Thanks for reading…

    John  

  • geo999

    Ugh.

  • BrocktonDave

    …I think I’ll go take a nap.

    When I get up I’ll help some chickens cross the road.

  • edfactor

    I knew Rob would never ban anyone for being a troll. (Look what it took two months ago to get him to delete a comment from someone here hoping for the murder of the family members of our state legislators.)

    Rob can continue to side with the bad people because RMG has a monopoly and therefore he can keep ignoring so many of his customers; they have nowhere else to go. For people like me and Jamison – we just get empty responses about “open debate.” What I know is that without about 15 serious people who post here, RMG would only be trolls and cross-posts from other organizations. It would die.

    So Mr. Voter can just keep being obnoxious, make arguments that are mostly sophistry, almost never concede points by the other side, and keep complaining that the right-wing trolls are being unfair to him (which they actually are).

    One day, when someone asks when RMG was “over” it will be times like these that get mentioned. Someone will say, “RMG got taken over by too many trolls. Most of the good content was from other places (Pioneer, Critical Dan, BHI, etc). Once [site name] got started, people just slowly started going there instead.”

    Too bad. As I know him, I can say that Rob actually cares about the community. He is a very good guy with a good heart. Too bad he isn’t customer-focused, instead of being committed to “free speech.”

    Lastly, Mr. Voter – if you consider yourself in a debate, you are sadly mistaken. If you ever want to really discuss politics with someone who is probably the strongest debater in all of the MassGOP, come have a beer with me in my neighborhood. The closest bar to me is only a few blocks from my house – it’s called, “American Craft” in Brookline. I will buy you a beer and we can talk politics if you want. My email address is in my profile here on RMG. My Facebook URL is: http://www.facebook.com/edlyons

    – Ed

  • CVarley

    I did not see this post in time to vote.

    I did not get to vote.

    I would have shown an ID if someone had asked.

    Someone should have notified me, brought me to my computer, turned it on, logged in, etc…

    I want a do over!!!

  • MerrimackMan

    NT

  • …we gotta to be getting close…not since the Ogo and Whatshisname for US Senate have we had so much action  (oh ya…Jeff Beatty).

  • I can’t recall any going over 200.

  • demolisher

    I really detest CVIM, whom I view as one of the worst species of trolls:  a totally dedicated and thoughtless leftist provocateur who is prolific in the extreme – to the extent she dominates the site.  Well done, whichever marxist educated this nincompoop.  

    Here in uberDem MA, is it too much to for us to ask to have just one little place that we can have a sane discussion, more or less unencumbered by leftist dogma and badgering?

    Anyway, after reading the initial post I was pretty inclined to vote “stay”, mostly on general principal but also on the whole slippery slope angle (who’s next?) as well as practicality (look here come 10 more!).

    But after reading perhaps 2 or 3 of CVIM’s predictable craptorts, I switched to “ban”.

    Why?

    Because life is too short.  

  • Vote3rdpartynow
  • but I’m going to anyway, because this sums up the lack of CVIM’s argument perfectly.

    http://www.nationalreview.com/

    Freedom of speech means that you have the right to say, print, broadcast, or distribute whatever message you like about whatever subject you like. It means that the government has no legitimate authority to punish or silence you just because some government official, or even all government officials, may dislike what you are saying. To exercise your freedom of speech, however, is not to give you some sort of special authority to violate either the equal right of others to speak or other rights they enjoy, such as the right to control access and use of their homes, lawns, businesses, and other property.

    In short, if you are on your own property, you have every right to say whatever you want, as long as you want. If you seek to enter someone else’s property to yell at them, they have every right to have you blocked or ejected. As for public property such as parks or government lawns, you have the right to obtain a permit to conduct a demonstration for a particular period of time, as long as you respect the rights of others and clean up after yourselves. You don’t have to right to “take over” or “occupy” such sites, however, because they are neither campsites nor stages furnished for your self-gratification.